From: Them@There.edu (Who) Subject: Re: MORPHINE Date: 1995/08/09 [...] I think a perfect description is a bad respiratory/gastrointestinal flu while on a low dose of LSD which doesn't peak for three days. ==================================================================== From: pez@manhattan.com (Gizmo) Subject: The Reverse Progression >It goes in waves< Date: 1996/09/18 newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard If your kicking a narcotic habit, and I mean a decent one. Like $100 a day or more over a period of one or more years, or 20mgs or more of methadone, 40mgs or more of dilaudid, that kind of thing. It helps to remember what I like to call the "wave theory." Everyone is scared to get sick. Our imagination sets the stage for the withdrawal to be 5 to 7 days of hell for heroin, 20 to 30 days for methadone, etc. We always "remember" and go into it, thinking it's just continuous torture. But it's not. Not really. It actually takes place in waves. You can observe this process. We all know the first 24 hours are nothing much. It takes that long just to get over your last high. The next day however, your all in. And it is a bitch. But if you watch it reall closely, you see that the craving and suffering even in the first few days, starts to have small breaks in between the hell. In between the "waves" of withdrawal, there are increasing periods of time, when you feel better. Not 100% better, but better. And as you watch this process you notice that as the days pass, the periods between the craving and suffering start to get longer and better. This is the period of times that your cells are getting used to functioning with the need for an external opiate. These are the periods of time that your brain is starting to produce endorphins again on its own without the sledgehammer effect of a shot of heroin. And you can help the process by refusing to dwell on it. You can help it by taking hot baths, or doing some exercise if you can bring yourself to do it. After the hard physical stuff is pretty much over, the same thing happens in your head. That is to say, that now that the physical pain and suffering are over, you notice that more and more time can be spent NOT THINKING about dope. So if your going to go through this stuff it might help a little to remember all this. It's all just a reverse of the process that got you hooked in the first place. Mind set is important going into withdrawal, because proper mind set will set up rhythms in your body that enable it to enhance the recovery process. This is just good preperation. Like ripples on a lake, eventually the waves from hell, go far enough away and the thing that causes so much turbulance in the beginning is eventually quieted. And man does it feel good the first time you can lay down and get a really good night sleep or even a good nap drug free. Good Luck, The GizmoMAN ==================================================================== From: (Peter McDermott) Subject: Re: question on stopping H use Date: 1996/12/16 newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard In article <32B3A82B.E51@epix.net>, Ben Leaman wrote: >Suppose a person who has been a 'chipper of h for lets say one year >2 bags day mornings and throuhout the day (Nasally) wanted to >stop. Besides the shits and the bit of physical misery how LONG does >it take to get back to a normal clean state if this person uses just >enough to make it but less and less each day (is that a reasonable >assumption that one CAN taper off). 1.) The length of time varies. You do hear reports of people who are only sick for three or four days. Personally, I'd say count on a month and if it's shorter, your luck is in. 2.) As for whether it's reasonable to assume you can taper off it -- I've never heard of anyone do it with any degree of success. You either quit or you don't -- unless you've got a medically administered taper, you're just fucking about, prolonging it. Even a prescribed detox doesn't make things much easier from my experience. >What I want to know is what foods and what otc medications and other >regimens will help the withdrawl process. You'll get some jerk who will post any minute now about vitamins. It's bullshit. Nothing helps. Some people swear by alcohol, but I can't say I've found it useful. If anything, it makes me feel worse. >I realize you might say two to three bags ain't shit--but it was good Not at all. My experience is that its the duration, not the quantity. >shit and always mixed with 'coke....The stuff was indochinese white and >unfortunately very pure....however this person is tired of spending his >time in a shell aka William Burroughs even though he does only have to >get up for part of a day once or twice a week. Hmm. Does he want to do a life swap? ;-) >Would it be best for this person to maybe jsut cut-back or to quit >altogether- Only he can answer that for himself. >he feels the only way he can cut back is to wean himself off >altogether....and not weaning is one miserable experince and he woudl >like to know how long that would take vs. the weaning (which is less >hassle- IF IT CAN BE DONE) My preference is to go for the one miserable experience. While you're doing it, you can always find an excuse to do a little more. You either stop or you don't.... As I said, count on a month before feeling any better, six weeks to normal but if he's lucky it could be half that. ==================================================================== From: kia <@hormail.com> Newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard Subject: Re: Heroin withdrawl question Date: 11 Apr 1999 00:16:36 PDT Sinsemilla wrote: > I've never done heroin, and I don't plan on doing it anytime soon, but I wonder > about withdrawl... I guess I just can't imagine it because I've never been > there, but its hard for me to imagine not being able to simply just wait > something out... what are some of the symptoms of withdrawl and stuff, that > make it so hard? thanks... funny you should ask.. i was just getting started.. w/withdrawal from that very devilish thing.. first thing that hits is an almost incessant yawning, and watery eyes,,, some flu like sniffles, maybe sneezing.. then sweats .and chills chills .. lotsa chills.... but this is nothing.. just a little prelude of the fun to come.. You basically feel like you want to die for the first three days, you throw up, your bowels ache and burn .. Muscle's ache.. lower back knots (i recal in my early days.. tho' it's been a while since i had one of those..) your sense of smell becomes acute, sexual sensation is miraculously restored, Thank God. and w/incredible sensitivity, (it takes about three seconds to come when it is first restored.. you quickly return to normal thereafter) Severe detoxing of opioids, one may have uncontrollable shaking of the legs and thrashing due to severe anxiety.. and cramping.. Read The Pains of Sleep by Coleridge... he talks about kicking there.. "The night's dismay saddened and stunned the coming day.." Sleep is impossible at first (no position is comfortable, minutes seems like hours... anxiety consumes you... and you want to scream... Panic, consumes you.. Long Hot Showers (saviors) in the middle of the night give minor relief.. but that minor relief seems at that second like it is all that is keeping you alive.. and so you really appreciate it. and you want to remember all of it, how fucked up it is... so that you do not do it again.. Sleep is Painful for a long while & after... You have unbelievable nightmares.. that stuns you with their impact on your psyche.. and fucking endless headaches at this point... deep in your brain it seems.. Tylenol helps.. That first week seems a life time, you feel aged by the experience, it sucks beyond belief or expression.. (tho' i am told H. addicts are babies and there are much worse things, -like a nasty pill habit- i do not doubt this for a moment, it is all relative) Fortunately, You do Not have to go through that ever..You can ween yourself slowly, that last little hump to zero is always the tricky part,, You have to want to it more than the drug... end of story.. heroin addiction for all it's physicality is as psychological as any.. habit. all addiction is a psychological issue... the physical thing is just that extra baggage until you get through it a few times and realize the problem is the craving you are left with once you are done kicking that nasty sickness. wonder what that is like..? What it is like to be very hungry and think of food... or horny and think of sex.. your mouth salivates for food, a conditioned response.. heroin also conditions responses in you.. I have heard of people getting dopesick after not using for years (and being fine) just cause now they are out of jail and the drug is available.. It simply becomes part of you.. It is an appetite you have now.. and anything can set it off.. the trick to beating it is in the mind, and then it is easy. Ahh, but get to that point. all things are easy when we are ready for them.. with regard to why so few recover.. well.. we will... we will,, on friday damnit.. I don't know how many times I have done this.. if you continue to use after a while you accept it as a fact of life and seek to maintain... but if you like to get high you have little forays into the cocoon of dreams.. (tho it is never again as it was in the beginning.. the so-called honeymoon phase... especially if you abuse it -the law of diminishing return and all- and with dope abuse is built right in because you build atolerance and fast.. I can inject what might easily kill an non opiate addict and not even get high from it.. and methadone can be much worse in this regard... it is highly toxic (od level for non opiate addict is 20mgs)- and i am surprised it is this much.. i would think in some cases 15mgs would do it..) as for me.. at present// I have been on a comparatively low dose of methadone for a while (years actually) but got off recently.. i'd been getting high anyway.. (did nothing but about 20mgs of meth everyday for two years and felt pretty normal everyday, never really sick..never high, looked prefectlynormal and healthy, but this is a very low dose for someone on meth, anyone can tell you, they want you on high doses... most addicts being complacent go along) For about while now I have been maintaining with dope (from the bronx,, we get home delivery here in parts of town)... so here I am,, I have about 90mgs of meth.. half bottle MSulphate, -this i have never used in detoxing, but as it is an opiate, should work well.. --would like to know how it stacks up against methadone, anyone know? With re; to potency-- I mean? whatelse.. multivitamins a very good idea as well, as the immune system seems to go all to hell... a little pot might be nice. I will let myself get sick for a day or two, as much as I can stand.. (probably will be till i wake up tomorrow sick as a dog) and then try and stabilize on a much lower dose for about three days and then go down slowly from there... I have done it before... can be pretty painless by comparison, You have to know what you are doing.. you can allow you self to get sick and thus decrease quite quickly the level of you habit (number of opiate receptors), but take the edge of by taking a small dose of an opiate.. it's all about self regulation anyway, always.. balance yourself there, and so on.. lower and lower and never need to go through the horror of kicking all at once.. No one should have to go through that.. regards,, from the creative capital of the world.. kia. ==================================================================== From: noise Newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard Subject: Re: Heroin withdrawl question Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:50:00 +0800 Agree with everything Kia wrote. I'd say the worst symptoms physically for me were insomnia (TORTUOUS insomnia), chronic diarrhea for nearly a month, nausea, severe anxiety, panic attacks, and worst of all, this incredibly empty feeling mentally. It's remarkably like losing a lover. It's such a safety zone when you're on it that to come off it and be thrown kicking and screaming back into the real world is a really wierd experience. It's hard to describe, something like being the last person left after a nuclear war. And spiritually coming off can torture you for anything up to a number of years, they say. I get a little of it now here at 7 months clean. All the patients on the detox program I am on get recommended to take anti- depressants, and I can tell you it's a good idea. The mental wierdness that it gives you is downright unnatural, so SSRI's to stabilise the wobbly, unsteady psyche are very useful. But Kia's description was pretty good. Let's hope you never need to find out for yourself just how ugly it feels. It's just a horror show. noise