From: peter@petermc.demon.co.uk (Peter McDermott) Subject: Re: Methadone Date: 1995/10/12 newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard > Methadone is one of the most addicting drugs out there >today. Also it's one of the hardest to kick. Herion at least after 3 days >it's out of your system and day by day you getting better. I think it does make you sick for longer, though I think that how much longer is pretty overstated. I suspect that this view has arisen because people on methadone have been using for far longer on average, and have kicked several times before. They think back to the days when they were kicking a chipping habit for the first and second time and thing, jesus, this methadone is tough. The other thing is, they are on consistently higher doses. People I know who have been on sizeable heroin dosages over many years have withdrawals that are broadly compatable in length -- ie, no sleep at all for a month. Also, methadone has the advantage of being less acute than heroin. It _all_ sucks when you are sick though. > On the other >hand with kicking methadone each day you get sicker and sicker. It >literally takes many, many months for your body to feel bette .I'm talking >about your bones feel like you have arthritis. You can't sleep no energy >and so on. Yeah, but what are the alternatives? Every day you gotta make your money to cop, then you gotta cop and worry about getting beat or busted. Methadone gives people the chance to lead a relatively normal life and reduces the likelihood of committing crimes, getting busted, contracting HIV, hepatitis, endocarditis, etc. The worst thing about methadone programs IMO, are the people who staff them. Usually a bunch of power crazed, sadistic dimwits who no nothing about drugs and who hate drug users. They get off on letting you know where the power lies in that relationship, and by humiliating people on a regular basis -- just to show who is boss. If I had to come up with _my_ best reason for avoiding methadone, it would be this. Drugs counsellors are worse than any crack dealer when it comes to humiliating the customer. Bring on the methadone dispensers -- cut out the middle man. As I wrote this, I was preparing my tri-weekly dose of injectable methadone. I pick up Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays from my local pharmacy. Having been on heroin scrips in the past, I can honestly say that there are advantages with methadone, though there is always a proportion of people who don't take to it, who _could_ manage on a diamorphine script, and who dont get one for political reasons. That said, there are some people who will continue to shovel drugs inside themselves no matter what kind of script they are on or how big it is. These days, the real constraining factors seem to be cost, how we ration health care, and where heroin addicts fit into that equation. ==================================================================== From: jaxsun@tesser.com (Jackson) Subject: Re: Methadone Addiction Date: 1997/01/30 newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard On 29 Jan 1997 12:18:43 GMT, shroom1222@aol.com (Shroom1222) wrote: >How many days and at what doseage would it take to get hooked on >methadone? I would say from the getgo that @ 35-40mg.s(that's one used to opiates but not addicted?)after about 4-6 weeks or less you would not feel like going for a round of handball 2-3 days after your last dose but a good month or two would do it, I would think. I was on 40mg. for 6 months and I got very sick when I cold turkeyed. >What would the initial withdrawl effect be like? Soreness starting in my liver and abdomen like someone punched you out good the night before! Everyones alittle different but my gut gets to be sore as shit. And your legs,it feels like it's in your bones but it's your nerves as I already have nerve problems and it feels like that in the center of your legs and your muscles are sore as hell too. You try to ly in a bed and can not get comfortable for the world,constantly twisting and turning.Your ankles want to twitch and kick(Kicking) in the air and then you get sick as shit to your stomach to where you don't digest right. Dr.s always listen to your stomach to see how bad the withdrawal.You can hear and feel it twisting and whatnot! I threw up something in there from the day before and then(Pleasant) green diarrhea. And there is an emotional part of it too that makes everything look so ugly especially your own face in the mirror with those HUGE pupils that means your really kicking big now! I was taking twenty Darvon to quell the symptoms alittle but after awhile couldn't keep them down.They didn't help. I drank a quart of whiskey and didn't even drink. NO sleep for over a week( I gave in after a week! ) and no normal sleep for months. I got high a few days then started it it over in a long term program but the worst was over. I found smoking a cig. real hard and heavy before bedtime helped alittle after a few weeks. That's was after six months though. That was the first time on Methadone(1975--76) and the sickest I had ever been to date @ 19yrs. old. I had "Chipped" on dope many times with no sleep and sick to my stomach but it paled in comparison to Methadone. But that's why I went on the clinic. To get rid of those sick periods. Heck it's hardly a problem if you pay $5 a day and go once or twice a week. I'm on an even keel. No constant Crisis all the time. Jackson >E.G. If I took H for 1 week .25g per day then I would feel slight >withdrawl but what if I took a comparable dose of meth for the same time >would the withdrawl be more 'painfull' ? In my opinion yes much greater but some say different. Also on heroin you are not always going to get that exact metered amount everyday. There are periods where it's hours late and times when you can't cop at all,or from a different potency, so I think the consistency of the same dose daily has some to do with it also. But I think all the Opioids appear to be harder than the Semi-synthetics, direct from my baby the Poppy! Jackson ==================================================================== From: eXposed Subject: Re: I/V. Fentanyl and Withdrawl Date: 1997/08/24 Newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard > >> Its just like someone that has never had a methadone addiction to say > >> it doesn't take a month, Fair enough it takes longer to leave the body > >> about 7 days, But the withdrawl takes a month to six weeks, I've given > >> it up enough times to know. > > Um, who do you suppose this person who's never had a methadone > addiction might be? > > My point was *not* that methadone doesnt take a month to six > weeks - that's always been my experience as well. My point was > that once you've *had* a significant habit any length of time, > heroin withdrawal lasts much the same length of time, not the > three days that I keep reading here. why, I'm really suprised to hear that coming from you. I occasionally lurk in this group and ery rarely post but I've been here often enough to know that your experiences are first-hand and based on a long relationship with opiates - alas I'm all the more surprised to hear you really feel this way - I have been on opiates for nearly a decade now and both tried periods of more than 2 years *non-stop-daily* with either heroin or methadone - respectively in rather stable doses about 1 g white/ 100 ml a day. Well, I've tried to kick both drugs instantly after these long periods of addiction and find there is a distincly different pattern of cold turkey with H and M. In many ways they actually compare very well to most peoples ideas of the process in this group: with H I go into *serious* wíthdrawal some 16-20 hours after my last dose and from there on it just get's worse the next 5-6 days - serious peak but after a week it *does* get better and after a month I feel fine, I mean "normal". With M, and this I've endured 2 times the real withdrawal first begins after 48 hours and then it stays stable and just as bad for at least a month where I won't be able to get *any* sleep without the aid of strong benzo's like 2 mg flunitrazepam (Rohypnol) or min. eight 5 mg diazepams or similar weaker benzo's, preferably with alcohol if I can hold it down - and then I will only sleep max 3 hours. I'll always remember this feeling of a knot in the stomach that just makes relaxing plain impossible. So I for one can't even begin to compare the two - I'm not sure of the excact medical factors behind this besides the longer half-time of M where you're right in stating that when that is over it should be over and threfor can't explain this - the one explanation I hear offered most, also by physicians (but I've admidttedly never seen in expanded upon in papers, phd-reports etc.) is that M should accumulate in your fat-deposits - don't know about this but would appreciate clarification on the subject. Anyway, that's my experience.