From: (Peter McDermott) Subject: Re: Methadone Date: 1997/08/29 Newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard > pardon my ignorance..but ive always wondered something..? > if youve reached a "level" with methadone where your not likely > to go out and use again....why stay on it? why not detox off of > meth? if all its doing is keeping you from getting dopesick...what is the > point of "years" of being subserveant to the drug and the clinic? > there is no "reward"(pleasure) in the drug...or is there? > > i fully understand its use in someone who "cannot" lay off dope... > but ive always wondered whats up with these "20 year" clinic people i meet > who "despise" the heroin lifestyle after years away from it.... > are they just worried about relaspe? There's a bunch of stuff here. First, it does more than stop you getting dopesick. You *do* feel it, even if the effects aren't as acute as heroin. Secondly, it has all manner of therapeutic effects, many of which address the reasons why people use junk in the first place, so it works for mild depression, anxiety, etc. Thirdly, when people detox from methadone, they usually start using again - often straight away. Lots of people just don't want to take the chance of relapsing and going back to crime or getting busted copping. ==================================================================== From: ikoltunov@aol.com (IKoltunov) Subject: Re: Methadone Date: 1997/08/29 Newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard [...] > point of "years" of being subserveant to the drug and the clinic? > there is no "reward"(pleasure) in the drug...or is there? > Gosh, is this a baited question? Nevermind. Not only will I pardon your ignorance, I will actually try to kick it down a few notches (I know, I know, rearangin' deck chairs on the Titanic). When a person becomes addicted to opiates, the brain goes through [arguably] irreversible organic changes. These changes could be compensated for by augmenting the body's own neurochemicals with medications such as Methadone. Attempting to "detox" Methadone patients [by reducing the Methadone dose over a period of time] has proven to be about as fruitfull as "detoxing" diabetics from Insulin. If you look at the empirical evidence, most of the "detoxed" Meth patients return to using dope. Honest injun! Do Meth clinic patients get high of Meth? Not unless you consider avoiding anhedonic states a "high". They go through daily routine of going to the clinic, where they're treated as untrustworthy scum, subjected to "observed urines" and other degradations - simply to be able to stay away from dope. If that weren't enough, they've got to deal with the stigma of being a "Meth Junky" - not acceptable as fully human by either straights or dopers. Hope that clears things up a bit (sorry for being a testy dink - touchy subject). ==================================================================== From: monde@siriusKILL.CYBERPROMO.com (Monde) Subject: methadone and 'harm reduction'. Date: 1997/05/07 Newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard IKoltunov wrote: > unless the kid wason a 'maintanance' (read - HARM-REDUCTION, > NOT FOR THE USER, BUT FOR THE REST OF THE GOD-FEARIN' FOLK), it's unlikely > he has a Methadone habit. it's really too bad that things like this have been said so often lately on this newsgroup. i've told my stories here a dozen times so i'm not going to go into major repetition mode here. i would just like to say that in *my* experience, the above statement could not be applied to me. i had quite a *bit* of harm reduced in my life by getting on methadone maintenance in 1992. were i not to do so, i would quite likely not be free of heroin, or the lifestyle that accrues from its use. i did not get on maintenance without trying many other 'solutions' first. i tried *six* of those miserable 21-day detoxes. i tried going to a rehab hospital (the first time) and ended up back in the Mission district of San Francisco about six weeks later, whoring and scoring. i tried weaning myself off with Valiums and Xanax and pot. i tried going to live with my mother in Sacramento and immediately looked up the section of that city where i could find tar. it just wasn't happening, i was not going to be free of opiates. getting on methadone felt like the beginning of solid and stable life after those two and a half godawful years. i do not pretend not to have an addiction to the substance, but it just isn't the same. i don't wake up in the morning feeling like crap, i don't have holes running up and down both arms, i don't have to prostitute myself, yadda, yadda, yadda. as for whether one substance or another is harder to kick, it's really immaterial if you are obviously going to not be kicking *either* of them. better to slowly try to get your methadone dose as low as possible, as i am doing, and go from there. i hope that other folks reading this group who are considering all of their options for getting off heroin don't completely ignore this one because of some of the things i've seen posted here. i wouldn't suggest getting on methadone after having a month-long heroin habit, or doing it in a location where you don't have easy access to a clinic. but if these are not the conditions, if you've been on the shit for years and are tired of the merry-go-round, this is a way to stop it and get off the horse. ==================================================================== From: Jackson Subject: An Ideal World or Ramblings of an Addict Date: 1996/11/04 newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard [...] I feel that being on Methadone.I have been shielded from a lot of things that I would have been exposed to longer if I didn't always stay on the Clinic for long periods, because I know the result. And being on a Narcotic that is doled out in an even manner and you don't have to scar up yourself anymore was a relief. My runs on Dope would last as long as I had the Money to support it, no more than a year or two. There was a scam here and there that would put me on easy street for a little while but,the older I got the Less law breaking I did. I can't get another Felony and so I don't commit them anymore.The last time I was on Heroin was in about "82". I had Detoxed slowly and painlessly at my Clinic, shaking hands and saying good-bye to everybody for good,I thought.I really thought was thru with it all! Well one day I started earning more money than a dope Fiend should have. It was like X-Mas everyday! I would have that money just burning a hole in my pocket so I started getting high again. It was hard at first because I had been out of the "scene" for over 7yrs.and didn't know where to cop.I generally don't even need to rationalize it though.After x amount of programs and Detoxes I knew myself well. My craving was so intense that I wanted to shoot some Drugs. That's it. Not,Oh I'm depressed and if I would take just one shot! No I went at it Knowing if I had a good source of income I was as good as Hooked and wasted my money. When I get lump sums of Money now, I pay bills and debts and if there is some left over I go and buy some Toy ot give to a Friend who has a safe.Out of site out of mind! So within three months I was doing about $180 a day and found some Percodans for about $150 a 100. A little steep but I bought 400 and really got in a Mess. So I went back to my old clinic ashamed and broke. It was a nice place run by Catholic Services. And a Well known Dr.Ben Shepperd paved the way for maintenance in Miami writing to Addicts for Blue Morphine(Long gone-to Abuse)before getting right with the FDA which he bumped heads with on more than one occasion. He had a lot of Political Clout. He was A Juvenile Judge,a Doctor,Lawyer, a County Commisioner, ect.com. This was down in Fla. They had full Free Medical Facilities. Anyway the Nurse said Shit honey you should have come here a long time ago and saved your money. Do you know I have never seen a Doctor on this Clinic in Colorado. Talk about a Ghost Writer!It's cheap at $135 a month. The ones in Miami that are private cost about $270 a month. If I had continued to go to those Super-market street-corners. They would have Five guys running up to your car askng what you wanted. I'd have been shot to death or fucked up bad if I had kept going into those places,especially on Foot?? You were as good as robbed.They don't just wave Guns around anymore.They use them and at 10-11yrs.old?!! I try to remain grateful for what I have now and where I am now and where I was over a decade ago.That's just one tale of many horrible stories of Death,Institutions,Murdered and murderers and all those that just Blew their brains out(all told-46).Most of my friends hated Methadone. But it has saved my life because I don't know where my real bottom is. I guess I hit a bottom of sorts just before moving out West.I was essentially homeless when I got out of jail and ended up Living in my old house that I had to give up after being incarcerated for a time. My Ex was still living there and I got a guest room,that was hard to swallow?? That Whole house was demolished by Hurricane Andrew but that's another story. But really there were times when I was so high I would take the Metro-Rail (Rapid Transit-After totaling my car) to Overtown and walk into "The Combat Zone". Even the People I hung out with wouldn't go there.and If the Cops saw your white ass in there it was all over.I got mugged and held up so many times that I kept my Dope money in my shoe and a Fake wallet and Four singles in it for "Give up Money" so they wouldn't bash my Brains in thinking I was holding out on them. I just got two black eyes.God the shit I had to go thru to cop. And I mostly got tired of getting Duplicate lisences.So I was prepared,I won't carry a gun because I'm not prepared to kill someone. But I am lucky to be alive because all the Guns I had pulled on me except for two,I knew they weren't going to shoot and would call their bluff?Talk about stupidity. That's Rationalization to the Nth Degree. One time I kept going around this block in the Ghetto and I came to a stop a a stop sign. This guy leans in thru the passengers side like he's got something for sale and the next thing I knew he had hopped through the window and was sticking a knife in my side and says"Up the Wallet and your car keys. NOT!! I leaned over to open his side of the door and he starts trying to chop my wrist off. I gave a big push and this Guy was an Ox he didn't bugde. So I got up about 25mph with the door still ajar because he doesn't know if I was going to do.I don't think he thought I would put up a fight for what was mine & he didn't know if I was carrying and could Clock his ass either and I swerved to the left at the same time I rammed my shoulder into him again and out he rolled. I tried to run him over(better I didn't) but he cut thru the woods. So I went to the Hospital got cut bad twice and got several stitches and a Major shot anyway?The Insanity? It still burns from where a nerve was cut. If someone had told me that I would wind up living in Bum-Fuck-Egypt in a One-Horse-Town in Colorado and FFFreezing my ass off, Coming from Sunny Tropical Fla. I would have called them a liar!. 29 degerees and snowing in the Rocky Mountains. Actually I like it here now. I've made it home and having a women by my side helps alot.In my active addiction I had no self-esteem and figured who would want me.I was 145lbs.@ 6'2". Now I've gained about 70lbs. @ 215lbs.(Alot from Benzo's) and I look better,if not Fat. Now that I learned to drive on the Ice to the clinic which is 46 miles away?? That's why I stayed off of Methadone for about 2&1/2yrs.The drive to Denver could be treacherous. Jackson