From: on@the.nod (Mrs. Winslow) Subject: Re: ALWAYS CURIOUS Date: 1995/12/08 newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard >>Having been on a methadone maintainence program for 15 years now, I >>would naturally be lying if I didn't think about those days. Just >>one question though...does anybody know of any dope in NYC that can >>be "really felt" through 80mgs of meth? > >My guess is that any dope can be felt through 80mg of meth so >long as you have enough of it. However, I doubt whether you would >feel anything less than 5 bags, and 10 would probably be closer to >the mark. > >You're better off doubling up on the methadone, IMO. > I don't want to help tempt our new friend, but I think Peter's tolerance is just too heavy. It's an individual thing, everyone has their dose at which their receptors are saturated (at least that's how I understand it) (methadone has a greater affinity for these receptors than heroin, morphine, etc as well) and at which they cannot feel short acting opioids, no matter what the quantity/purity. When I was on 90mg I tried everything possible to break the blockade...I was dealing 90%+ pure heroin and shot quarter grams at a time, I shot three bundles of NYC street dope in one shot. In the first cases I would feel absolutely nothing, and in the latter felt only the cuts. On 80mg however, I could catch a solid nod with anywhere from 6 bags to a bundle. This was all more than three years ago however (now I'm on 70mg and have managed to avoid occasional temptation). THESEDAYS I regularly see people on 80, 90, 100 mg totally nodding off of one to three bags of dope...I've seen people on 80mg _sniff_ one bag and go on the nod. You could certainly shoot 6 bags safely, but I think it would be a waste unless you got shitty ones. And most people on blockade or near blockade doses of oral methadone find doubling up to have little effect (no effect if you're at blockade), unless perhaps, one tosses in a handful of pills in the bargain. The entire equation of dependence changes when you're around receptor saturation... ==================================================================== From: on@the.nod (Mrs. Winslow) Subject: Re: ALWAYS CURIOUS Date: 1995/12/10 newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard >This just doesn't make any sense to me (other than to say that your >metabolism seems to be a strange thing.) I'm currently on 40mg methadone a >day, and I double it up, doing 80, 80 and 120. 80mg doesn't get me high, but >I do feel an effect. I can catch a nod on 120. A quarter gram of the local >brown dope will wipe me out if it's any good. I'll catch a nod from an >eighth if I do it on top of the methadone. However, I've I've got a half, >I'll shoot the whole half gram -- being a pig like that. You're on nowhere near a blockade dose. Blockade has not at all been discredited. Certainly not by the original/primary researchers (Dole, MJ Kreek, etc). What led you to believe so? I don't think anyone has conclusively demonstrated saturation, etc, but as far as I know all the evidence is there, both research and the experience of myself and my colleagues. Are you proposing that there are an infinite number of receptors , or just that receptors keep growing to adjust above one's tolerance. Some people are confused because they think that tolerance and blockade are distinct phenomena (of course, untrained workers in the field spread this notion as well). They are not, the only extra effect of methadone with the blockade is due to the fact that methadone has a greater affinity for the opioid receptors than short acting opioids. Furthermore, you're using methadone IV, resulting in wildly fluctuating blood levels and (I would suspect...can't cite here) receptor growth. While I think what I say above is correct, I _have_ to go and study Kreek's latest stuff carefully. >I don't understand why you think an increase of 10mg should make such a >big difference. especially as you were shooting pure dope? Methadone is >just another opiate. Its only difference AFAIK, is it's long half life. Greater affinity for the receptors. Still, as I've said, I believe a similar blockade effect could be achieved by using a sufficient amount of short acting opioids frequently enough. >It's been my experience (and those of many people that anyone can get >high, regardless of their dose, if they take >enough. As I understand >it, most people believe that the blockade effect works by raising the >tolerance so that it becomes uneconomic to get high on opiates >(particularly true in the past where NY heroin was of low purity) >rather >because of some pharmacological effect of receptor saturation. I >rather think that your account above of people on 80 to 100mg nodding >on one to three bags of dope would support this thesis, no? > Not at all, in my case, 80mg left enough receptors open for a sufficient amount of dope to have an effect. 90 filled every last one and prevented any effect no matter (seemingly) the dose. Everyone's different, some people may not hit blockade until far higher (and 5% or so metabolism their meth too quickly, losing blockade before the next dose). Sadly, most programs here have a ceiling of 100mg unless one is on meth metabolising TB meds. [...]