From: pez@manhattan.com (Gizmo) Subject: Re: methadone maintenence Date: 1996/10/05 newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard (Roy Stanford) wrote: >Something is definitely wrong here in NYC...years ago a person drinking >60mg plus couldn't feel heroin to save their life. Now a person will >sell their weekend bottles (even if they're on 80-100mgs) and go out >the very next day, shoot dope and "feel" it! This never would have >happened when "real" methadone was around several years ago, but the >replacement with methadose has dramatically changed the scene. And this >is happening in NYC where there obviously is a severe heroin problem; >which US city will be targeted next for methadose? Personally I >haven't tried shooting dope through my 80mgs because it scares me that >I just might feel it and then I believe it's all over. I do have >contact with users though on a meth program and they are definitely >on the nod after firing up. If this were only one of two people I'd >simply say they had some kind of needle fixation and anything they >felt was in the imagination but I am talking about hard-core heroin >users that know what is happening and this number is growing steadily. >Is it that the heroin is just that good or is methadose just that >inadequate or is it a combination of both? I don't know. The reason this is happening is because the quality of street heroin in New York and elsewhere in last three or four years has increased from it's former average of 5 to 10% per bag to over 50% per bag! Methadone never did "block" the effects of heroin. All it does is create enough tolerance in a user so that a person would need to overshoot that tolerance to feel another opiate, such as heroin, morphine or dilauded etc. Gizmo ==================================================================== From: smisch Subject: Re: Methadone as a euphoric inhibitor Date: 1996/06/27 newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard TERRY TIMBERLAKE wrote: >Its very simple methadone blocks the effects of herion. The meth fits >into the opiod recepters in the brian just like herion {but with very >little stimulation} which is way it dosn't get you high This is not quite the case. Methadone is as powerful an opioid agonist as heroin. That is, not only does it fit the same receptors, but it "stimulates" them approximately as much as does heroin (actually opioid receptors are inhibitory, but all the same...) The only people in whom methadone does not produce a "high" are those who have developed a strong tolerance for opioid agonists. In those with lower thresholds (e.g and ie., myself) methadone is a _whopper_. 45 mg and you are (I was) _out of action_ for a good thirty hours -- and the retching doesn't stop. I put "high" in quotes for a reason; it was actually quite unpleasant, at least after the first 6 fucking hours. Enough about my foolish little experiment, though. You can look up the comparison betwen the agonistic properties of heroin and meth in any pharm text. Methadone is a pure agonist with a similar profile to that of heroin; it has no antagonistic properties and is not a partial agonist (such as eg, buprenorphine) . >and while you >are on it no herion can get through. So you need to stop using meth for >at least 24 hours before you use herion{maybe more or less depending on >usage} but 24 should do. And do not use meth and herion together. This >is just wasting it. Using meth and heroin together may be dangerous, since methadone -- not being an antagonist - only adds to the respiratory depressant effects of heroin. The original poster pointed out that the combination put him/her to sleep -- there _is_ an additive effect. Meth may block the heroin rush due to the fact that there is no receptor "flooding" taking place, since the receptors are already occupied....conjecture, conjecture, conjecture.... But meth is not an opioid antagonist by _any_means. ==================================================================== From: pez@manhattan.com (Gizmo) Subject: Re: Methadone as a euphoric inhibitor Date: 1996/06/29 newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard TERRY TIMBERLAKE wrote: Snip >That may be true{for people who are not on methadone} but if you are on >meth and you want to get high{on herion} then you have to stop using it >for at least 24 hrs. That is why the government uses methadone to detox >junkies because it dosn't get addicts high{even when they do herion} This >is also known as cross tolerence. This takes place when you mix any >opiod drugs. Use only one at a time! Not completely true here. Methadone WILL DEFINITELY GET YOU HIGH. The high is a little duller and more blunt than heroin, but if your clean and you take 10 to 20mgs, you will be flying for 24 hours. For real. Even if you have tolerance to either heroin or methadone, if you take enough extra, you will get high. If you can tolerate 50mgs of methadone, you go and take 100mgs and your flying again. It's all relative. The Gizmo