From: Joycelyn Woods Subject: Re: Naltrexone Date: 1996/12/04 newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard Hawk, In your posting you queried about feeling a mild opiate effect from taking naltrexone (NAL). This is not unusual and has been reported in the literature about former addicts taking one dose, others feel the opposite and get a headache and feel terrible. The other thing that has NOT been reported in the literature is that maintenance NAL for addicts is the wrong drug. the literature reports wonderful things, but reports from those who have tried NAL are the opposite to the point of a work associate of mine starting to lose peripheral vision and he he stopped NAL he went on a binge to end all. It is marketed as a medication for addicts who are motivated which I find very degrading to others who are struggling to get their lives together. Also you mentioned some theory about antagonists around the receptor. I believe you mean agonists. While opiate antagonists have been found their function and location is not understood and none have been found in human brain as I recall. ==================================================================== From: (Peter McDermott) Subject: Re: ReVia/Naltrexone, rehab, & me Date: 1997/09/26 Newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard In article <19970926080500.EAA22888@ladder02.news.aol.com>, lina@aol.com (Lina) wrote: >So as part of the comprehsive rehabilitation package I have been handed, >they want to put me on this drug Revia, or Naltrexone. >According to my counselor, it will reduce the cravings for heroin, plus >block the effect if I due use, thereby eliminating any reason for me to >use. She does have the tendancy to lie, however. *Sigh* Don't they all... Naltrexone actually *doesn't* reduce the cravings for heroin. The research shows that it *does* reduce cravings in alcoholics, but I suspect that because it prevents the endorphin system from recovering properly, it makes addicts feel *worse* than they would normally feel. It's one advantage (if that's what you'd like to call it) is that it stops you getting high. You go out, buy a big bag of dope, shoot the lot - nothing. Of course, if you stop taking it, you can get high again, but it stops you from slipping back into regular use on impulse basically. You have to plan for it. :-) It seems to show pretty good results with doctors, dentists and other people with a good reason to stay clean though. If you're really committed to staying clean, it's one more weapon in your armoury. >Now in theory this sounds like it would work. Everything works in theory. "Just say no!" works in theory. ==================================================================== From: (Jim Hogshire) Subject: Re: ReVia/Naltrexone, rehab, & me Date: 1997/09/27 Newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard I think naltrexone is a bit more dangerous than any other opiate because of what the previous person said about blocking opiates for pain relief in case of accident AND because if you do try to "shoot over" the blockade you stand a much higher chance of OD'ing. I can go look this up, but I do believe this drug has a side effect profile that includes some sort of risk to a major organ (I'm just putting this out there tentatively in case I don't get the info by Monday). On the other hand ... it *is* an effective blockade and despite everything said, it does seem to at least alter withdrawal symptoms (what the hell...) and it undeniably increases your body's synthesis of endorphins and enkephalins. There was a study done with long-distance runners dosed with Revia before running and that group showed blood levels of endorphins 50% higher than placebo. So, since you might not feel like jogging or throwing around a medicine ball while kicking, you can still rev up your endorphin production. In any event, while kicking, I think it's essential to get more than enough protein. Junkies only need about half the protein of regular people cuz they aren't synthesizing endorphins. Also, I'd say it's a good idea to just hand your system some of the amino acid building blocks it will need -- like D (or DL, but not L) phenylalanine, methionine, leucine, and tyrosine. You might wanna do the Revia just to speed recovery even if it doesn't help with the pain. Also, don't be afraid to *lower* your dose by half if you feel uncomfortable or somehow "intoxicated" (a side effect). ==================================================================== From: (Jim Hogshire) Subject: Re: ReVia/Naltrexone, rehab, & me Date: 1997/09/27 Newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard Samson wrote: : > with Revia before running and that group showed blood levels of endorphins : > 50% higher than placebo. So, since you might not feel like jogging or : > throwing around a medicine ball while kicking, you can still rev up your : > endorphin production. : : To what end, though? It's all being blocked. That's probably why more is : being produced. Wouldn't you think? Is there any evidence that the body : keeps compensating after blockade is removed? No, you got it right about the blockade stimulating the production, but the point is it does stimulate production more than just jonesing does. Since it's important to get your own enorphins movin' I figure anything you can do to speed that along is good. Also, depending on the dosage of Revia, the blockade effects can last up to 48 or 72 hours. ==================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 05:43:51 +0800 From: noise Newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard Subject: Re: Naltrexone - ??? Anonymous wrote: > > Is it really true that naltrexone, while it raises the amount it takes to > feel anything, it does not raise the amount it take to OD on. I don't think that's the right way to look at it. "Raises the amount" - no, it makes it almost impossible. It's not like methadone where with just a little more gear you get stoned again. Naltrexone means a total barrier against opiates. But, it can be eventually overpowered with enough heroin. A doctor put it to me this way, it's a good way to look at it - "It will take you like $1500 to get stoned. But, $1525 and you're dead". I think that means, yes it does require the amount for an OD. But there's a TINY fine line between stoned and dead once you finally overpower the blockade. Anyway... the whole idea is only take it if you don't WANT to try and get high any more on heroin. If you're not ready for that, simple, you;re just not ready at all. Go on methadone. You can still use heroin after all, you just need more. Only take naltrexone if you want zero heroin whatsoever. If you want heroin, forget naltrexone. They are chalk and cheese. It's technically possible to get stoned while taking naltrexone, but it's REALLY dangerous, it defeats the whole point, and the next tablet you take after that is going to hurt like hell - there's no point. Save it for when you are convinced your addiction should totally end now. If you're thinking "raises the amount", naltrexone's the wrong treatment, sounds like you should be on methadone. That raises the amount, yet still makes it totally possible (and probably safer, but more expensive) to get stoned on heroin. Raises the amount for an OD too. > Like, > shooting a gram would kill an average person, would it also kill this > same person on naloxone Sorry to nitpick but NOT naloxone... naltrexone. naloxone is a differnt name for narcan, used for overdoses. > even if they wouldn't feel lesser amounts? Or is > this something the drugmaker is just telling people so they can cover > their asses, they want to lessen the risk of a lawsuit of someone does OD. No, it's an all-or-nothing thing. If it doesn't get you stoned, it won't OD you either. Heroin just totally does nothing at all if you're on naltrexone (except for when you completely overwhelm it with a massive heroin dose, and then, you should just expect to die). I think I understand - you're saying, can you overdose without getting high? Or words to that effect. The answer is no - on naltrexone, you don't get high and you don't die of overdose... you're "immune" to opiates. To clarify - it'll take BIG amounts to get stoned if you're on naltrexone. But that's only because you have to totally breach the blockade it provides. And just a little fraction more, once you have made that breach, kills you. You still have basically no tolerance at all, you just have to overpower that blockade first to find that out the hard way. Just think, naltrexone equals no opiates at all. Methadone is different because it's an opiate itself. Forget this getting high while you're on naltrexone, it doesn't work. And DON'T forget that if you want to get high again after naltrexone, you have no tolerance (the four or so days after the naltrexone wears off). For the sake of Gordon, let's please learn that little lesson - you don't come off naltrexone to go back on heroin because it's too dangerous. Naltrexone is there to STOP heroin doing anything to you, so that means not to take it at all. Isn't that what getting off it really means? OK, that's my take on it with the usual caveats, like, I could be totally wrong. For a more authoratative spin on things, see the website: http://iinet.net.au/~noise/naltrexone/ Happy cold turkey-ing, noise