From: smisch Subject: Magical naltrexone? Date: 1996/06/14 newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard,sci.med.psychobiology Here's something I have placed in the WHA?? file in my mental library. Just how bogus is this? Much can be said as to the dubious merits of long-term naltrexone "therapy" (and see the claim herein that naltrexone "decreases the craving" for opiates - huh?). But this center is making the claim that acute withdrawal symptoms can be comletely eliminated overnight, simply by "flushing the system". Is this physiologically possible? Or is this, as I firmly suspect, a complete fraud? Read and shoot. (More info on "Nutmeg" is at http://www.ucc.uconn.edu/%7Edls95002 ) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- What does this treatment involve? The addict is put to sleep using an I.V. (intravenous catheter) in an intensive care unit environment. He or she is monitored using sophisticated medical devices under strict approved medical standards. While unconscious (asleep) the patient (the addict) is given a medication called naltrexone which reverses the effects of heroin and causes a controlled withdrawal reaction. Because the patient is asleep, he or she does not experience the extremely unpleasant side effects of going through an awake withdrawal. Because withdrwawal is caused by medication given by a medical doctor, the doctor can carefully give right amount of medication to make the withdrawal reaction occur in a way which is safe and effective. This detoxification procedure typically lasts from 4 to 6 hours, during which time the patients is asleep. After the major withdrawal reaction has occured, the patient is allowed to wake up. (The sleep is also carefully controlled by a doctor who is an expert in anesthesiology). Upon awakening, the patient for all intent and purposes is detoxified. How long does the treatment last? After the procedure is carried out, the doctor writes a prescription for naltrexone pills which the patients takes orally, usually once a day at first, for the next few months. These pills have two important effects: one, they cause a decreased craving for narcotics, and; two, they tend to make the effects of heroin ineffective. Eventually, the pills are discontinud. The intensive rehabilitation treatment followed by oral pills have proven to be extremely effective - 75-80% of addicts treated do not use heroin 6 months after the treatment according to published reports. 100% of patients are reported to effectively undergo the "sleep therapy" procedure. The philosophy of Nutmeg Intensive Rehabiliation Center, LLC is to strongly encourage outpatient follow-up therapy with the appropriate groups and individuals after the procedure. We will assist in "getting plugged into" the right follow-up care. ==================================================================== From: pfeiffd Subject: Magical Naltrexone? Date: 1996/06/20 newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard I'm 26 years old and had been addicted to opiates for six years, when I went to Tel Aviv, Israel for detox in December 1995. I was hospitalized at CITA, an organisation that works with the UROD (ultra rapid opiate detoxification) method. Dr. Legarda, a spanish physician, is the founder of CITA and the first person to use this method commercially. I had to pay $ 6.000 to be accepted. After a thorough examination I had aenesthesia at a ICU and was put to sleep for approximately six hours. During this time I got infusions with clonidine and naltrexone. I don't know the exact contents of the infusions because they're kept secret. But, as far as I know, naltrexone and clonidine are used as well by Dr. Loimer, Vienna, and Dr. Felix Tretter, Munich, who are also working with the UROD method. Dr. Loimer actually was the first to introduce that method in Europe. After waking up six hours later, I felt terrible for two more days (convulsions, stomach pains, depressions, sleep problems). These problems might have occured according to the fact that before undergoing the treatment, I was using 80 mg of methadone per day. Since methadone has a longer halflife than heroin and is stored in various body tissues, withdrawal, even with naltrexone, could take longer. The doctors in Tel Aviv told me that most people, who had been using heroin before the treatment, can be released without any health problems after 24 hours. But me, as I already mentioned, did not feel well for around 72 hours. But compared to 2 - 3 weeks, which a 'normal' detox without naltrexone takes, I would always prefer the UROD method. I think this method should be made available for all addicts, i.e. it should be paid for by all health insurances. ==================================================================== From: anon@penet.fi (Crash) Subject: Re: QUICK DETOX Date: 1996/11/16 newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard kittyfeet wrote: >I am curious if anyone here has paid $7000 to go to mexico for the quack, >I mean quick detox thing where they knock you out with barbituates and >flush opiates out of your system with Narcane. Having been revived from >o.d.s a few times with Narcane, I know what an incredibly body wrenching >experience instant detox is. Has anyone died from this treatment? >For a lot less than $7000, I will fly you to San Francisco and hold your >hand and talk you thru any kick.lol seriously, I'm not a doctor, I just >play one on T.V, but I wonder about this process. sounds crazy to me. >there is an artical in the sf. weekly (or gaurdian-both are online ) this >week about it. I know someone who did one of these stupid opiate flushing programs. He did not take his nalxetrone and scored almost immediately after the procedure (3 days I think). The urod website claims that there are no withdrawal symptoms and only a 20% relapse rate. This is absolutely 100% pure bullshit. He was in agony afterwards. Even if it does flush opiates out of your body, you are paying 7grand to avoid the first 5-6 days of withdrawal.....nothing more. ================================================================ From: (CAV CLV) Subject: One Day Opiate Addiction Reversal Date: 1996/10/17 newsgroups: alt.drugs To anyone addicted to any sort of opiates, My name is Chet and had the procedure done in Merchantville, N.J. under the auspices of a kindly and knowledgeable Dr. by the name of Lance L.Gooberman. It is officially called the "U.S. DETOX OPIATE REVERSAL UNDER GENERAL ANESTHESIA AND NALTREXONE MAINTENANCE THERAPY" It works, recovery from the procedure varies with the individual, but this treatment center sent me home with an arsenal of drugs to combat any obnoxious side effects of the procedure.My opiate receptors have been returned to their virginal state, if I did not take my oral ReVia or allowed my Naltrexone subqutaneous implant to wear off, and did my previous dosage of dope, most likely I would die. Your tolerance is returned to ZERO, which is the amazing part. It doesn't just clear your system of the opiates you have on board @ the time, but TOTALLY cleanses your opiate receptors, returning them to the state they were in before you took your very first dose of opiates. If you have let the juice of the poppy rule your life, find a certified treatment center in your area and get it done. Anyone wanting additional information can email me or call Dr. Gooberman @ 1-800-978-0808. ==================================================================== From: (Peter McDermott) Subject: Re: weird 1 day detox Date: 1996/10/15 newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard In article <325F7C83.694C@neca.com>, cdrain wrote: >but anyway, i'd like to hear what people think of these people..or if >anyone's done it. They've been doing this in Europe for some time now, especially in Spain, though there's also a place in London that does it They put you out using a general anaesthetic, fill you full of an antagonist and clonedine, and keep you under anywhere from 6 to 24 hours (depending on who is doing it.) Supposedly, you wake up 'cured'. I saw a film on TV a while ago about two British addicts who had travelled to Spain to do it. Both were on sizeable quantities of methadone prior to the treatment. One of them did remarkably well, and really did seem to get over his withdrawals very quickly. The other didn't do well at all and still seemed sick a week after the treatment (though she was still clean a few months later.) My feeling, as ever, is that getting off isn't really the problem. It's staying off. This is just another gimmick to put more dough in the pockets of the treatment industry -- and there are always risks with keeping people under GA. ==================================================================== From: Nick Subject: Re: weird 1 day detox Date: 1996/10/15 newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard [...] Have you ever tried Naltrexone? I have (at home - on reflection, hospital would have been safer), and I was not totally clean when I took the first dose - Within 20 minutes I was barfing like you wouldn't believe. I couldn't hold even water down for more than 15 seconds. After 3 days, I was almost hospitalised because of impending kidney failure because I hadn't pissed for 3 days... So, yes, I believe that it *is* possible to purge the body of opiate residues in 24 hours, so long as you are already at least 24-36 hours into withdrawal. [...] >naltrexone does not reduce craving for heroin...it is simply an opiate >antagonist. i suppose they're sort of convoluting the facts...you might >have less of a desire to use dope if you know you aren't going to feel it, >but the real desire is to use the dope *and* feel it, and naltrexone >doesn't do anything to curb that desire at all. > In a weird way, it *does* actually. When you are taking it (I was taking 50mg every day for 2 months), I didn't think about getting high with anything like the frequency that I did on any other cure I've been on (and I've done *lots*). There is an added benefit of knowing that if you do want to start using again, you will have to wait for 2-3 days after your last naltrexone dose before it would even be worth trying to use. It's those little nagging urges that have always fucked up my detoxes in the past, but with naltrexone, a spontaneous urge is dismissed almost before it has fully surfaced in your conciousness. That was my experience of it, anyhow... ==================================================================== From: (CAP608) Subject: Re: Methadone Addiction Date: 1997/02/03 newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard Ijust got back from Philadelphia after taking Dr. Gooberman's sleep cure. I was either on 200 mg meth and Xanax or 100 mg and a gram of pure Mexican tar with xanax. Gobberman's idea is to put you out for six hours for meth or three hours for heroin using a combination of aneththetics( sic) including the dreaded ketamine. After six hours I woke up vomiting and could not walk for six days. Upon returning to my home city, I fell out in the bathroom from weakness. The next day a psychiatrist took one look at me and said I was dehydrated. I went to my physician and friend. He gave me 1.7 liters of fluids ( IV ) This helped a tiny degree and then I kindly asked him to remove the naltexone plug that Gobberman had sewn under my skin. The surgeopn removed it and I wasgiven a dosage of 50 micromiligrams of fentanyl in patch form that lasts 3 days. My doctor friend and I think this was the only way to go. My intake of opiates was greatly decreased because the patch is equivalent to 10-15 mg. of meth per day. We plan to reduce thepatch by cutting a quater off every nine days until I'm done. It was disapointing that this sleep cure did not work for me especially with the NA nazis we paid $750 per day to be our caretakers. I finally told one that if he ever returned to our room, I would pay to have him disapear. I've had much better luck with the slow reduction method. This was the most traumatic detox of my life. It was enough to make me not want to take anymore dope. At my age it's getting too hard to detox. My body just can't take it. At my clinic, they're giving 300 and 400 mg. of meth plus. This is truly the point of no return. I'm glad I'm down to where I am. This is one crazy world. Where I see little compassion for the active user. I hope they come up with something a little more humanistic other than this Frankensteinian sleep cure with screaming NA nazioids et al. I would rather be dead than in Philadelphia. ==================================================================== From: (CAP608) Subject: Re: Clonodine and other new Fangled Disasters! Date: 1997/02/17 Newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard My rapid detox experience over one month ago has left me still unable to put more than one thought together at a time. It seems as if my mental bearings are flooded with peanut butter. The large white fluid is a nightmare drug.( looks like " white light" wall paint and has ketamine as an ingredien. This knock formula for rapid detox ( at least at Dr. Gooberman's torture asylum in Phillie which aside from being used as an general aenesthetic for children, it is a hallucinogen ( a disturbing one at that ) which they injected into me prior to loading me up with antagonists. At two hundred to 100 mgs. of meth per day and/or 1 gram brown tar, this treatment was a nightmare. Full blown withdrawal symptoms upon awakening plus the inability to talk or walk for days due to the trauma to your system and the aenesthetic. I'm doing better in my home city under the care of my private physician who says, " I can't believe it that was his real name Gooberman". This treatment is not safe as I came home totally dehydrated. I was seriously ill. I repeat this is no answer that we haven"t already experiernced. Never be detoxed by anyone who has not gone through it themselves and at high doses or find a doctor with the compassion of buddha. I'm currently detxing on duragesic patches ( fentanyl) i'm at aprox. 38 Micromgs. The pdr lists a conversion chart for fentanyl = oral morphine =equals duragesic but alas i nevere paid attention in math. 50 Mmgs. Of duragesic equals how much in methadone? Can anyone research this and get back to me. My dr. Says 8-12 mgs of methadone? Let's check his amswer. This countries really gone around the bend by allowing rapid detox but not allowing private opiate maintanence outside a clinic setting. Gooberman and rapid detox/ just say no. Cuurent article in " buzz" magazine goes on and on about rapid detox " myth or cure". If you are on a high dosage of opiates, myth is too light a word.I've used dope on and off since the early seventies. I did total sobriety for 11 years. Please no more lies, no more dogma, couldn't they just once have an aa meeting and no one could talk for one hour. Just sit and face the wall like in a zendo. I'm in limbo land. Between the dogma and fear of the sobriety saints and the dead zone eyes of a lot of my former methadone users, i've clearly got to get on with my life and put this behind me. A friend of a friend in new york is desperate and still insists on going through rapid detox. "Just leave the phone number on my answering machine," he said. Sorry i don't help sadists and twelve step nazis who profit from recovery. I'd rather handg with shooters anyday. Today i've got the choice. I hang with neither. CHICAGO ==================================================================== From: (Peter McDermott) Subject: Re: Clonodine and other new Fangled Disasters! Date: 1997/02/18 Newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard In article <19970217221100.RAA08659@ladder01.news.aol.com>, (CAP608) wrote: >My rapid detox experience over one month ago has left me still unable to >put more than one thought together at a time. I think you should expect to feel like that a month after any detox if you've been using for any length of time. My experience suggests that you should start to feel as though you might be getting better after about six weeks or so. >It seems as if my mental >bearings are flooded with peanut butter. The large white fluid is a >nightmare drug.( looks like " white light" wall paint and has ketamine as >an ingredien. This knock formula for rapid detox ( at least at Dr. >Gooberman's torture asylum in Phillie which aside from being used as an >general aenesthetic for children, it is a hallucinogen ( a disturbing one >at that ) which they injected into me prior to loading me up with >antagonists. Actually Ketamine is one of the safer general anaesthetics. Which is not to say that I believe this procedure is either safe or desirable. In fact, NIDA has said that this treatment is not justifiable on medical, ethical or cost grounds. I tend to agree with them, personally. >At two hundred to 100 mgs. of meth per day and/or 1 gram brown tar, this >treatment was a nightmare. Full blown withdrawal symptoms upon awakening >plus the inability to talk or walk for days due to the trauma to your >system and the aenesthetic. Sure. All the dope is out of your system, but your body still isn't producing it's own endorphins yet. So you would inevitably feel like someone who has had all their skin stripped off and their nerves exposed to the world. My take on this is it's probably OK for some yuppie who has been chipping a little, doesn't really have a habit but is scared of the little discomfort that he experiences on stopping. Such people will probably see it as a miracle cure. However, if you've been using any length of time, I think you are a lot safer doing a slow and gradual detox, at a pace that suits you and your body. It might be horrible, but it's not traumatic like this is. There's no way such a treatment could do anything but deliver a profound shock to your system - anaesthetic or no anaesthetic. ==================================================================== From: (GrlLikeMom) Newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard Subject: Dr Wasser on accelerated withdrawl from opiates....... Date: 11 Apr 1999 22:45:01 GMT Accelerated Opiate Withdrawal by Stuart Wasser, MD (AARF Drw) The intensity and duration of withdrawal is related to how quickly the receptors empty of drug, which is related to how long the drug remains in the body. Heroin, which lasts a relatively short time in the body, has a more intense withdrawal syndrome, but the equivalent amount of a longer lasting drug, such as methadone, has a less intense but more prolonged withdrawal syndrome. The Locus Coereleus (LC) is the part of the brain responsible for withdrawal symptoms. It becomes over-active to a greater or lesser degree, depending on how quickly the drug leaves the receptors and the body. The idea behind accelerated withdrawal is to cause the receptors to empty faster than they normally would. This is done by giving the patient an opiate antagonist -- a medication that can bind to the receptors without activating them. The medication will prevent any other drug in the body from activating the receptors. Essentially, there is a chemical wall between the drug of abuse, such as heroin, and the brain. This has the same effect as emptying the receptors. The patient will go into withdrawal more quickly and more intensely. The two most commonly used antagonists are Narcan and naltrexone. Narcan is administered through the vein and begins acting almost immediately. It has long been used in emergency rooms, as it reverses the effects of drug overdose within minutes. It causes significant withdrawal in this setting, but this does not detoxify a person because he may not receive a dose sufficient to block all receptors. Also, Narcan disappears from the body very quickly after a single dose. Since heroin (or other drug) remains in the system after the Narcan is metabolized, compete withdrawal never occurs. Naltrexone is a pill that is taken once daily. Its onset of action is slower but it is effective all day. Its main use has been to prevent the patient's ongoing abuse of drugs, as it will prevent the drugs from interacting with the receptors. Because the patient cannot get high or get pleasure from the drug, he will not have any desire to continue using the drug. The use of naltrexone to precipitate withdrawal has been established. A partial dose of naltrexone is given on the first day; then progressively larger doses are given on successive days (most persons use a four to five day protocol). The patients are usually medicated with Clonidine and sedatives. They may be given intravenous fluids. The intense withdrawal, usually at its worst on the first day, lasts several hours, and then the patient goes home. He is uncomfortable but not as much as might be expected. By the end of the treatment, the patient is on a full blocking dose of naltrexone with minimal withdrawal. This procedure has some advantages over traditional withdrawal treatments. It is useful in treating withdrawal in persons using long-acting drugs, such as methadone, where withdrawal may last one or two weeks. Also, the worst of the withdrawal occurs while the patients are under medical observation. In addition, they are on a full blocking dose of naltrexone for five days after the start of the treatment. In persons undergoing traditional withdrawal, there is a need to wait at least one week before beginning naltrexone. Disadvantages include increased costs and more involved medical care. In addition, the patient is sent home between treatments and runs the risk of relapse. A quicker procedure has been described which is commonly referred to as a "24-hour detox." In this procedure, a full blocking dose of Narcan is given to the patient immediately, and the drug level is maintained by the use of a constant intravenous infusion that lasts four to six hours. In addition to the Narcan, naltrexone is given at full blocking dosages to maintain the antagonism after the Narcan is stopped. Because there is now a full blockade of receptors right at the onset, the LC becomes maximally active. The withdrawal syndrome would be too intense to tolerate except that patients are under general anesthesia throughout the administration of Narcan. Reportedly, the patient has relatively mild symptoms of withdrawal upon waking, which resolve within one day. People have trouble believing this can be accomplished so quickly, yet animal studies show that the over-activity of the LC begins to resolve after two to three hours of maximal activity. It is as if this area of the brain tires out from overexertion. This is an exciting treatment and may be a treatment of choice in the future. Still, we must remember that it is new, and there are fewer than 100 procedures documented in the literature. There are possible complications secondary to the invasiveness of the procedure as well as anesthesia. At least one person had respiratory failure and spent six weeks in an intensive care unit. (This is expensive and not covered by many insurance plans.) We must be cautious when considering this procedure and should await further studies. For now, the procedure's most prominent proponents have been those who have a financial interest in continuing this treatment. An excellent Web site for more information is: http://www.heroin-detox.com Accelerated withdrawal techniques are riskier and more expensive. Most opiate abusers manage to detox using conventional means but relapse at some later point. Relapse prevention is where the challenge of treatment lies. Copyright 1999 Stuart Wasser MD 990223E ==================================================================== From: (Richard Zake) Newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard Subject: Re: heroindetox.com Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 21:26:26 -0800 Let me put it this way. After shelling out way too much money $$$$$ to Goobie, I was rushed out of his office before I could stand & for three days I was in a hotel with his NA nazis. Iwas clean in the 12 steps for 11.5 years and I know their kind. The "good" doctor didn't even do a follow-up visit. The NA nazi's refused a check on the third day until I told them they should unless...I don't want to go into that. They sewed a naltrexone plug under my arm and sent me off to the airport in a wheelchair. When I landed in my home city, I collapsed in my bathroom that night, smashing my head against the wall, I was still having uncontrolled vomiting and diahhrea. On the 5th day I saw another doctor and he told me I should be in a hospital as I was dehydrated. I went to my doctor and he put me on five hours IV fluids, he had a surgeon remove the naltrexone plug, and slapped a Duragesic patch on me so I could retain fluids. These MD's would gladly testify against this quack in any hearing because he 1.) he failed to visit after I was released from his care. 2) he never checked for dehydration. He's a quack and I swore I would ruin him and others who practice this Orwellian and medieval practice anywhere. The true route to dealing with addicts is to leave them to their choices.The true way to help people is to practice harm reduction not wire people with electrodes or inject them with paint like anesthesia. If you want UROD, if you really think the NAway is for you, God bless you, if he can hear you. Ibogaine and Heantos sound far more promising than Goobie's hallucenogenic detox ( no, I was onscious and had the worst ketamine induced horrors in my life.) Leaving someone with there endorphin receptors screaming for dope is not my idea of medicine. Accepting only cashiers checks and cash sounds like a funky way to run a practice too unless you want to cover your tracks. Feel free to express your views on UROD but for large habits, it can be fatal. It has scared me off any form of detox at this point. When all you have is a hammer, I guess everything looks like a nail,huh? I figured out later why they told me not to drink too many fluids during my post-three days of UROD. It was they didn't want to clean up any mess. Lovely, so let my eletrolytes flip and aloow me to go into dehydration and ,perhaps, fatal heart attack. My MD friends in Chicago couldn't stop laughing because they didn't believe the doctro's name was Gooberman. He's just another Nurse Ratchet. He'll pay...one day. That promise has been made ==================================================================== From: noise Newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard Subject: Re: heroindetox.com Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 01:42:42 +0800 Richard Zake wrote: > > Urod is a scam! Talk about painful detox, it doesn't live up to > one of it's sincereful lies. It's the Jerry Springer of detox. Who > ya gonna kill next? I've been UROD'd and I'm fine and heroin free at 8 1/2 months. The UROD isn't what helped with that, UROD is essentially to prepare the body for naltrexone use. And if you expect to EVER find a painless way to oust a heroin habit, you've got the wrong universe. There is NO WAY you can get away with a heroin addiction and come out scott-free. Let me tell you something, I attempted to detox the old fashined way many times and it was too hard for me. URD replaced that for me with something that can't be backed out of. Two weeks of hardship I didn't manage, a few hours of punishment with no way to back out and I made it. And then I was ready for naltrexone, which is doing a great job for me. My problem with American UROD procedures as I see it is that they push the detox itself as the be-all and end-all of getting clean. Think again. All it does is get the shit out of your system. Of COURSE it feels bad afterwards!! UROD doesn't make you sick. Withdrawal does, and UROD plunges you right into withdrawal. Think of it this way, UROD achieves in hours what it takes a couple of weeks to do normally. And has anyone ever felt 100% again after a few weeks? Nope. If you just discount the myths surrounding it, then UROD is fine. THese myths are- 1) It's a painless way to detox, period. Well it's painless while it's being done, but you have lots of adjusting to do after that, and withdrawals one way or another take months to get past if you count mental cravings. 2) The detox is the treatment. Nope. It is just the START of treatment. It is just the first step of one way to tackle opiate addiction. All the UROD treatments I know of use Revia (naltrexone) to follow it up with, and this is the longer-term value of the procedure. Naltrexone can work if you commit to it. 3) it's the quick fix to the problem. If you think there IS a quick solution, you're wrong, there is none. Leaving behind an addiction is more about leaving behind a lifestyle and a state of mind. Don't even bother with UROD until you have faced up to the decision whether to get cleaned up or not. Save it for when you are absolutely determined. noise ====================================================================