From: rappa@dataweb.nl (Jeanette Roberts) Subject: Re: withdrawal Date: 1995/09/25 newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard [...] The "if-they-suffer-long-and-hard-enough-they'll-stay-away from it" theory is not merely false but also dangerous. In a budhist temple in Thailand (Tham Krabork), this unfortunate misgiving is put into sadistic practice, whereby withdrawing people are forced to drink a ghastly dark-brown bitter-as-hell tasting brew consisting of undefined herbs & plants plucked from the trees by the "Head Monk". Imagine 15 - 20 guys lined up on their hands and knees, staring in terror towards an approaching old monk who is accompanied by some kind of "security monk" with a big cane in his hand. The guys who know what's coming stare in terror because they KNOW what's coming and the guys who just arrived that day, stare in terror because they don't know WHAT'S coming. Yeah, it's that brew alright, which is handed to you by the old monk in a tiny cup.... and the second you swallow its contents, you think your stomach is on fire and you can't withstand the incredible urge to vomit your guts out. And while you're gagging and puking so hard that your eyeballs almost pop out of their sockets, you see with horror, that the 15 - 20 guys lined up on the floor next to you, are also wretching and puking and spilling their stomachs. Guess the enormous amounts of water those well-meaning monks force down your throat simultaneously, don't improve your general well-being but they definately provide for "effects". Everybody's kinda "turbo-puking" and the good monks tell you that the higher the gush, the cleaner your body (and soul) will become...! Just wonder why they picked "five"... i.e. five consecutive days of repetitive drama until your body is supposedly cleansed of smack, ganja and other refuted substances....? It should not come as a great surprise, that on occasions, people decided "to hell with buddha and the oath I had to swear to the universe to never, never consume: smack, morphine, grass, cokain, amphetamines, alcohol, coffee, and tea" (YES, COFFIE AND TEE TOO), and tried to jump the garden fence... Boy oh boh, what a mistake! Those poor bastards - when caught - got to taste some of buddha's finest.... bamboo canes that is.... Okay, so the whole package deal only takes 10 days, (of course you can stay longer if you like - even become a monk...), and surely marks one of the more memorable moments in everybody's career, but I am convinced that once the memory cache got cleared of the gutsgore&bamboo sessions, NOBODY refrained from indulging because of Tham Krabork's superjuice and its merry monkies. And it really counts dubble for Thais, since they actually DO believe in the oath they had to swear to the universe and the authority of the monk not to mention Mr. Buddha himself. (And I strongly contest their claim of having a "success rate" of some 70+% not only for aforementioned reasons but also because nobody is ever allowed to return.... and this makes it kinda hard to arrive at proper statistics.) Nope, "suffering" no matter how hard will NEVER entice a user into changing his evil ways. It just teaches one important thing: make damn sure you NEVER RUN OUT! (smile) Jeanette ==================================================================== From: peter@petermc.demon.co.uk (Peter McDermott) Subject: Buddhist monks treating addiction Date: 1996/02/08 newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard >Would anyone have any information on Buddhist monks treating heroin >addiction. Yeah, I saw a documentary about it once. This Thai monk was giving people a powerful emetic to make people puke, and shouting at them about what miserable little shits they were. His argument was that the potion that he made them drink every day contained stuff that drove the poisons out of the body and cured you faster. As I recall, it's since been subjected to analysis and has been found to be nothing more than a very strong emetic. Questions have been raised about how safe the procedure is. It certainly doesn't have any recognizable therapeutic role from a pharmacological point of view. It seems as though any possible role it may play is as a type of aversion therapy, now widely discredited as a treatment for addiction (and most anything else) here in the west. I believe that one reader of this group has actually undergone this treatment. Perhaps they'll be along soon with some more info. ================================================================= From: Arno Subject: Re: Natural ways to ease heroin withdrawal Date: 1997/10/20 Newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard > Just a few off-the-cuff observations about withdrawal. I'm >about to try 21-day detox for the third time, and though I might >share some experiences. > > For me, acute withdrawal symptoms last 4 days. I use to fool myself into > thinking it was only three, but then started counting the days with 0 > first. > > As for the message subject, here are the only natural practices that > slightly help with the withdrawal for me: > > Have several glasses of wine. Surprisingly helpful. > > Jogging or vigorous exercise, if you can handle it. Presumably your > body will produce some endorphins -exactly what you need at this point. This is absolutely true, and if you can get your ass up and do it it is very helpful. Best to start doing sports before stopping, then it will be easier when you're down. Jogging and fast swimming are excellent in my experience. But if withdrawal is very bad, forget it. In that case it is good to start as soon as the situation gets a little better. The endorphine theory is is very plausible, and the subjective difference can last for several hours. There will be sports addiction from now on, but no problem. :) > Any other ideas?? Sauna is another pick-me-up. At least two runs of very hot sauna with a lot of sweating, each time followed by cold showers and a jump into the cold water basin. Probably the sweating rids the body of some stuff that you have to get rid of anyway. Like sports, sauna raises the energy level and increases resistance. These two are the most effective natural methods I know. They also help to get out of the heavy mental swamp and can distract the attention from the constant focus on one's suffering. Another effect is that one feels good about oneself. It gives quite a lift to break through the passive attitude of just suffering it out and do something constructive instead. This psychological effect is extremely helpful to keep going. ==================================================================== From: Arno Subject: Re: Natural ways to ease heroin withdrawal Date: 1997/10/23 Newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard On Thu, 23 Oct 1997 11:59:48 +0100, (Peter McDermott) wrote: >>>This is false. It is the method that the Scientologists use with people in >>>Narconon. The way they do it has even resulted in some deaths. It does >>>not rid the body of drugs. > >>But they are using super high dosages of another drug that has >>dangerous side effects at the same time. > >Niacin. I don't think it has any dangerous side effects. What I've heard is that it has dangerous side effects if it is used in the dosages the scientologists do. That may be anti-scientologist propaganda, I don't know, but they really give a lot and then it has strong effects on the system. >>One definitely should not >>take that drug and do it according to their method, I agree, but just >>because they have a stupid system doesn't mean nobody should ever go >>to a sauna on withdrawal. >Personally, I've always found hot baths better than saunas - but >the relief only lasts while you're actually in the water. At least something. But did you try sauna also? With hot and cold showers? It definitely does something. It lasts a bit also. But, of course, everybody reacts differently. ==================================================================== From: bang Subject: Vietnamese herbal for H addiction Date: 1997/06/30 Newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard --- Monday June 30 6:27 PM EDT Herbs May Ease Addiction Treatment NEW YORK (Reuters) -- A Vietnamese herbal extract, said to cure addiction to heroin and other drugs within days, is the latest focus of a major research program sponsored by the United Nations, Johns Hopkins University, and the U.S. National Institute of Drug Abuse. The U.N. Development Program announced last Monday that it was contributing $400,000 to research on the formula, a mixture of 13 plants developed by a Vietnamese herbalist. The program will offer up to $5 million more in funding if the results are positive. The mixture, called Heantos, or "heat of the sun," was developed in the early 1980s by Dr. Tran Khuong Dan. Dan, born into a family of traditional herbalists, watched both his father and a brother struggle with opium addiction. Committed to finding a cure for drug addiction, Dan has said that he deliberately became addicted to heroin in order to experiment on himself. Speaking at a press conference held at the National Press Club in Washington last week, Dan told reporters that he cured himself of his addiction with Heantos. The treatment was approved in Vietnam in the early 1990s and has been used successfully to treat some 4,000 Vietnamese drug addicts, according to Dan. Patients drink a liquid derived from plants and herbs once a day for up to four days until the craving for drugs subsides. They continue to take smaller doses in capsule form for the next six months. Researchers at Johns Hopkins University's Center for Chemical Dependence in Baltimore will analyze the mixture to learn how its components ease the symptoms of drug addiction. They also may conduct animal tests with scientists at the Medical College of Virginia in Richmond, to prove that the extract is safe. If it passes these tests, Heantos may be tested in humans. Dr. Don Jasinski, director of the Johns Hopkins Center, told USA Today that he agreed to test the formula "because it's in the public interest to do so." Several drugs are available to treat heroin addiction, but none are highly effective, and there are no effective drug treatments for cocaine addiction. SOURCE: USA Today (June 24, 1997) _________________________________________________________________ ==================================================================== From: "anapiel" Newsgroups: alt.drugs.hard Subject: Re: heroin self detox? Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:58:29 -0600 Desp wrote: >i have a friend who thinks its possible >to detox oneself off heroin >by steadily decreasing the dose > >now i'm not sure how much they use >my best guess is daily >and yea they are injecting it > >i can see weening yourself from say pills >but heroin? >or maybe its morphine > >regardless if this person *wants* help >does indeed have a supportive family >what is the best way to try and kick >can you really detox from heroin >the do-it-yourself- way > >i'd like to hear from people >who either tried to the above way >or an otherwise alternative method Um, I kicked H through the patented "All Sinners Must Be Punished"(TM) self-detox method. To preface it, I had myself a nasty speedball habit (averaging .5 to 1 grams of smack a day mixed with a 25 grams of c) for a little over 2 years with heroin/opiate use stretching back for about 7 years, as well as being a parrot. When the shoe finally dropped, I was living in SF, and I just you know found myself needing to prove to myself that I could get out of it (my nonusing friends had pretty much run the full intervention bit on me, evryone was bitching at me bitching at me bitching at me, and the shit was starting to become a hassle). I got a plane ticket to my parents town, and told 'en I was coming home to clean out. I knew virtually noone, and no users in there town, and there is no street scene, so it would be hard to get there. On the last day I was in SF, I picked up my "package" from the man, and traded in my rigs at the exchange. I mixed up half of the package in a vial for the plane ride (you don't want the hassle of mixing a shot in that cramped airplane bathroom with people knock-knock knocking, and I sure as haell wasn't going to meet my parents already in the midst of withdrawal. . .let 'em see the change come over me, let em know just how fucking hard this was). That was the only fun part of the whole experience. . .no responsibility, didn't have to worry about scoring again, no more money hassles, because I didn't have to pay rent on my body anymore, and I still had some cash. Once at home, the real hell began. I basically figured I'd rather have my withdrawal over quickly and then be done with it. So, I tapered at a much faster rate than is advisable, if there were any chance of you getting more drugs. Basically by the third day I was out of smack. I guess I spent most of my time delirious (at first) and sleeping. Ate alot (granola, chocolate, massive amounts of tea) and took scalding hot baths constantly.. . .Tom Waits _Rain Dogs_ was the detox soundtrack. I would walk alot, when I was strong enough (and the first three days of no dope were pretty bad. . .I lived in the bathroom, and my parents graciously decided not to talk to me) and fantasize about scoring dope. I wrote long, pointless descriptions of scoring and shooting. . .sort of like picking at a wound. . . .I remember the first morning, about 3 weeks after I got home, when I actually woke up from a good night of sleep (albeit with ultravivid scenes of frustrating attempts to buy drugs) and actually wanted to do something. . .an excellent band called the Dirty Three (from Australia actually) came to town and I went to go see them. That was the hardest part, and it still troubles me. . .I turned to heroin because after searching for the good things in this world of shit, it never failed me. Ol' reliable smack. . .and now that I've found it I had to say goodbye. . .and finding replacements for that is hard. I still (and its been 10 months) have junk related dreams at least once a week. I find myself looking at the people standing aimlessly on the corners of the shitty neighborhoods, reading for the familiar traces of junksign. . .the three sweetest words in the english language are not "I love you" but the runner asking "Are you looking?" heh heh. . . But, if you are really committed to quitting, self-detox can teach you alot. I couldn't have done it without abandoning my life in SF, so this method is not for everyone. Its important to find diversions, because contrary to popular belief, the hardest part of kicking isn't detoxing, its staying clean once the pain has subsided (at least for me). Most importantly, one must be able to NOT work or have any responsibilities during those first few weeks. . .if you need to maintain a functional life I recommend Methadone maintenance. I would also probably recommend that your friend find a sympathetic non-user to help with tapering; I did it myself and it was more of a nose dive than a graceful landing. Also, if there is a heart condition, you may wanna be careful. Melatonin, valerian, and benzo's will help with the sleeping, but I sort welcomed the insomnia. . .it gave me an opportunity to get some perspective. . Umm, that is all. . .I gotta get back to work, but I couldn't not respond to the slef-detox question.